Flight Club '06 Edora (Safari!)

[storm_king]

Obviously, Edora was far more difficult in Safari setup during the Flight Club Challenge this weekend.

Normally, all holes are counted as par 3 on the course, totalling 54 for 18 holes. Saturday, I believe at least a few of the holes were longer than par three (yay!).

If you agree, and think the par could be adjusted on a few of the holes in that setup, post your vote for actual par here.

Also, how did you come to that conclusion (which holes would you consider 4's or 5's)?

Fun times yesterday, thanks to all who came and made it a great inaugural event!!!

KC

[originalcracker]

I say 57 would be reasonable, even though a part of me still believes 54 is always par. I say the holes that were par 4's were 12-13 14-15 and that 1st new hole. They were just the craziest holes out there in my opinion. Maybe I forgot one, I dunno?

[masterblaster]

par is 54 dont hate me cause i design a course you cant beat!!!!

[dga]

Par is an interesting concept and often different for many people at least in disc golf. To me "par" is to play the hole with no excellence or mistakes but just to play solid average shots. Some of the holes were between pars and I realize that nobody can shoot a 3.5 on a hole. ;D

I think par was around a 62.

hole 12-13 long is a par 5, and the hardest hole we played in my opinion

10-11 a par 4

9-10 a par 4

14-15 a par 4

3-9 a par 4

both hole #1 long and hole #2 to the practice basket are around a par of 3.5

long tee on hole #3 a par of 3.5

12-16 a par of 3.5

[storm_king]

First off, thanks Doug for jumping in. I was hoping you'd have some input on this...

And to this "master blister", or whatever, don't get offended, just put down the coffee and practice CLP some more. ;D (Just kidding, buddy...)

dga said:

Par is an interesting concept and often different for many people at least in disc golf. To me "par" is to play the hole with no excellence or mistakes but just to play solid average shots. Some of the holes were between pars and I realize that nobody can shoot a 3.5 on a hole. ;D

I agree that par varies quite a bit between people. As such, my idea of par is what a good (pro? not neccesarily) player would shoot when playing smart and solid on a hole. To be under par, is to show that you took risks, made them work against the odds, or are an *exceptional* player overall, and now are showing minus strokes because of it.

Obviously this doesn't work, ever really, with the way DG courses are designed currently. To be on par most places means you missed your birdie putts. That's how someone can be 8-14 under par on only 18 holes! (Silly, if you ask me) This is also why a large part of the Advanced Am field, and most all pros are usually at varying levels under par.

So, my vote goes to a 58 (59 if you add in those 3.5's)

I agree with:

-12 to 13 long is a par 5 (definitely the hardest, and really fun in a masochistic way)

-10 to 11 a par 4 (a 3 is possible, but takes extraordinary shots)

-9 to 10 a par 4 (very tough three! I didn't get it)

dga said:

14-15 a par 4

3-9 a par 4

both hole #1 long and hole #2 to the practice basket are around a par of 3.5

long tee on hole #3 a par of 3.5

12-16 a par of 3.5

These, I'm not so sure about.

-14 to 15 would be nearly impossible to deuce, and a three is tough but attainable if played correctly

-3 to 9 was another hard three, but with two good shots, you're parked. (If it was in either of the other placements it would be a par 4 for sure)

-I like the 3.5 rating on 1 long, 2 to the practice tee, and temp. long teebox on 3. I'd round them down to a total 10 strokes. I wouldn't want to give any one of them a par four rating though (hence the 58).

-12 to 16 is a good solid three in my mind. Everyone I saw at least landed a drive with an ok upshot opportunity for a three. (I foured it, DOH )

And Mister Plaster, seriously, thanks for putting together a setup that challenged even the best of us! I had a blast and hope it resembles this setup next year as well.

[storm_king]

Oh, and sorry Doug for not putting a wide enough range on the poll!

Next time... (I'd change it if I could)

[BeTheMachine]

that round was such a blur after it was over that I can't make a decisive vote without seeing all the holes on paper again, but I definitely enjoy a longer, more technical course. I believe we as disc golfer have to get away from the par 54 mentality if we want this game to grow and advance. You should feel good about a drop in 4 on a longer, tougher hole that plays close to 4, and you should feel rewarded with a 3 on a hole like that and not feel like you got a par. You should also feel good about shooting a -10 round at a course like Edora, but who wants to see a tourney at a birdie course on TV or have a big tourney somewhere where all the pros are simply playing deuce or die to stay alive. I believe if we can start to instill this type of mentality into d-golfers we will begin to see more courses that are par 60-70 where you shoot in the 60s and don't have to say 'I shot so and so over. I mean, you shoot in the 70s in ball golf and you're a bad ass. The same can be transposed into d-golf imo.
good discussion topic.
can anyone list all 18 holes from the FCC so I can make an honest vote?

[storm_king]

Here's the map:



And here's the list of what's what...

1. 1 long
2. 2 to practice basket
3. 3 to 9 on hill
4. 10 to 11 short
5. 12 to 13 long
6. first alternate
7. second alternate
8. dogleg right
9. 14 to 15
10. 16 to 17
11. 18 right (near #1 tee)
12. Lengthened #3 tee to 3 long
13. 4 long
14. 5 regular
15. 9 to 10 short
16. 11 long
17. 12 to 16
18. 17 to 12

[drasticplastic]

I've gotten so used to the all 3 system, it is hard to think otherwise while on the course...

Par hmmmmmmmm... looking at average players throwing a good shot?

I seem to lean towards this...

It seems that 300 feet is a good average drive for someone that isn't a beginner.
A good average drive should leave a 100 foot "up" shot.
A good putter should be able to consistently land puts within 25 feet.

To me that makes a decent par 3...somewhere around 350 to 425 foot shot with "normal" obstacles and flat elevation.

Some adjustment for wide open shots (eg. 12- 16), heavily wooded shots(eg. first alternate), drastic elevation changes (eg. lengthened 3) and OB (eg. 11 long), or even simply difficult pin placement (eg. hole 1 long) should obviously would throw out all those simple hypothetical numbers. (of course there is always 12 to 13 long which had all of these - by the way no one should have had to start there!)

Looking at all that I definately see some room for change at least on the "safari" set-up.
1- par 3 - I think the 3.5 was good but for par should round down...
2- par 4 - needed 2 good drives through heavy trees and OB to get there.
3- par 3 - elevation a huge help there.
4- par 4 - as if 10 long wasn't long enough...
5- par 5 - did anyone get an official distance for that one??
6- par 4 - only because of the mandatory.
7- par 2 - i know its not right but its frikken short - if you don't think so, practice your forehand.
8- par 3 - another of my favorite holes that day.
9- par 4 - tough hole.
10- par 3 - stay in bounds and it wasn't bad.
11- par 3 - can we put it there more often???
12- par 3 - elevation a huge help again.
13- par 3 - i miss that hole
14- par 3 - how many of us used a "mid-range" driver?
15- par 4 - you had to have an amazing drive to 3 that...this was my favorite hole!
16- par 3 - we'll miss you.
17- par 3 - just stay off the street.
18- par 3 - just stay off the street. kinda redundant huh?

Total- par 60 ( I was still nowhere near this, but I think quite a few were.)